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moulay

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Reply with quote  #16 
I agree with you. but the way in which they treat us, does not bode good. they must give us the ability to turn off the product line is the only guarantee because the activation server may stop as abruptly as the company
moulay

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Reply with quote  #17 
I agree with you. but the way in which they treat us, does not bode good. they must give us the ability to activate  offline the product. its the only guarantee because the activation server may stop as abruptly as the company
jadach

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Reply with quote  #18 
I never tried, but does Iron Speed even work when you are not connected to the Internet? I'm afraid to try and see.
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Jerry
Gerard

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Reply with quote  #19 
If you have std editons not monthly subscriptions it sure does work with out internet connection except help and  there has been a link posted for a download copy last week.

I use ISD regularly without internet on my travels
Gerard
 
jadach

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Reply with quote  #20 
Thanks Gerard. So our only possible issue is when we need to move ISD to another computer? Also, what;s the deal with those extra keys? Does that mean I can install ISD on another machine using that new key?
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Jerry
jadach

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Reply with quote  #21 
Jeremy, I did hear back from Xlinesoft (AspRunner.net) regarding patent trolling. They tell me they would fight if this comes their way. They have no intention of being bullied. Worse case scenario they would split the application into two parts similar to some of the suggestions made on this thread.

The more I use their product, the more I like it.

I am also evaluating code on time and alpha anywhere.

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Jerry
scrimej

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Reply with quote  #22 
Jerry, 

I sat through the CodeOnTime demo yesterday.  It was intriguing but I need to download and try some things myself before I make any decisions.

I'll have to add AspRunner.net to my list of evaluation products, as well as a few others I want to look at.

If the forum goes down anytime soon, my work email is scrimej at warrencountyny dot gov.  

Thanks for the follow up and I'll keep you posted as to my discoveries.
miles

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Reply with quote  #23 
Alpha5 has runtime licensing, and it is quite expensive.  Perhaps not a problem if you are just running one server in-house with many applications, but it takes all the incentive/profit away if you are a small shop selling a product.

I scheduled a demo yesterday with CodeOnTime, and they simply sent me a WebEx invite, with no regard to my schedule.  That was odd.  That being said, it is a different interface than what we are used to, but I will have to install it and play with it to see if it is feasible.  The Unlimited version is about $1699US (2K Canadian), so it is not cheap either. They do have the option to create a native iOS app, that is intriguing.

HTH,

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Miles Gibson, MScIS
Iron Speed MVP
Senior Consultant, Principal
Milestone Software Inc.

http://www.ironspeedmvp.com\localizer 
Email: miles@milestone.ca
Milestone Localizer: Full Localization for your Iron Speed applications!
jadach

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Reply with quote  #24 
Miles, same here, random scheduled WebEx for me too. 6PM EST today.

Also, I agree with your assessment of Alpha. That server extension is most likely a deal breaker for me. I did spend an hour with them last week. Very knowledgeable and very helpful. They showed me a lot. But XBasic and the sever makes me hesitant. Does look powerful though.

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Jerry
afisher

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Reply with quote  #25 
There's been a lot of comments on our patent litigation, so I thought I'd share a few thoughts of my own in this forum thread:
http://sjc.ironspeed.com/post/a-few-comments-on-patents-7604178?pid=1288690994#post1288690994

Enjoy!

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Alan Fisher Chairman Iron Speed, Inc. @afisher1024
dougc

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Reply with quote  #26 
We only did a few projects with ISD several years ago and had a good experience. (Miles Gibson was a great help getting us up to speed!) But at that time it wasn't keeping up with the user interface our users were demanding.

So after careful consideration we switched over to Entity Framework and Telerik controls. And we built a foundational library of our own to manage lots of things like email sending, event logging, and more.  All of this, along with coding and database standards, got us back to being as efficient as we were with ISD.

Now, due to customer demand, we no longer can rely just on web forms, but are doing more and more in the browser than we historically have. Resulting in having a set of C#/SQL back-end programmers and another set of HTML/CSS/Javascript/Angular front-end designers/programmers.  While MVC looks great, we don't see the economic benefit in moving to it yet.
miles

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Reply with quote  #27 
Thanks Doug!   Your approach is interesting and viable -- IF you have the bandwidth to get all of that background work done.  Had I the time and resources I would have done so as well.  But Iron Speed has offered all of that in one package, sort of soup to nuts if you will.  And so I didn't need to.  Of course v12 is vastly different than v5!

I am really interested in the Angular JS/MVC version they were working on. I would sure like to see that emerge somehow..

Cheers,

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Miles Gibson, MScIS
Iron Speed MVP
Senior Consultant, Principal
Milestone Software Inc.

http://www.ironspeedmvp.com\localizer 
Email: miles@milestone.ca
Milestone Localizer: Full Localization for your Iron Speed applications!
pkoutoul

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Reply with quote  #28 
I just did a demo of Code On Time and I have to say, it is very impressive. Seems to cover everything that ISD does and then a great deal more, including my personal killer feature, a responsive "touch" UI. That said, it works very differently and the learning curve would be fairly steep. Still, like ISD, it can generate a sophisticated, beautiful working CRUD app in minutes. From there, you can do anything with customization and coding. I'm not doing anything just yet but this tool looks very promising as a total end-to-end replacement for ISD for those of us who have come to rely on app generation for the heavy lifting part of our app development. 
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Pete Koutoulas • Fayette County Public Schools • Lexington, KY
miles

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Reply with quote  #29 
I had a demo today with Serge from CodeOnTime. Think of him like Kirill speaking, except with 12 cups of coffee or so.  He spoke way too fast and I could barely understand him.  

There are certainly both pros and cons to CodeOnTime.

Pros:  A very impressive dashboard, where you can flip and forth seamlessly between card view, grid view, mapping and calendar views.  I am very impressed with the ease of grouping in grid view for example.  And the filtering was very nice too.

It looks like with the "TouchUI", it offers a robust responsive design UI.  The look and feel leaves some things to be desired, but other things seem modern and well, responsive.

Cons:  I tried building two different test apps with the free version, and neither version will compile. I get errors.  Not a great start.

CodeOnTime does not generate stored procedures.  Serge said it was no big deal.  

And you can't really edit pages apparently,  You sort of add/remove fields and CodeOnTime arranges them for you.  You can globally decide to show field labels in different ways, but not custom.  See https://codeontime.com/learn/getting-started/designing-forms for more information.  I guess you can work with a UserControl to achieve custom looks, but only to a certain extent.

Overall

You can create apps as "Single page HTML" or "Active Server Pages".  I like the lightweight approach, but as neither one compiled, it is a bit of a moot point.  CodeOnTime uses Bootstrap, which has proven to be problematic in the past.  Perhaps they have sorted all of that out.

At this point, it is at least somewhat tantalizing to consider, but not being able to get the simplest of versions working is alarming to say the least.

Serge says they generate everything themselves, with no 3rd party dlls.  A refreshing thought to a certain extent, but I wonder how they will manage things as technology progresses ( Angular Js to Node JS to ?? etc).

So at this point I will play around with it a bit more to see if I can get it work, but certainly won't make a change yet.

FWIW, M2CW


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Miles Gibson, MScIS
Iron Speed MVP
Senior Consultant, Principal
Milestone Software Inc.

http://www.ironspeedmvp.com\localizer 
Email: miles@milestone.ca
Milestone Localizer: Full Localization for your Iron Speed applications!
jadach

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Posts: 203
Reply with quote  #30 
I had 2 demos of CodeOnTime. I had no problem compiling. You should reach out to support.

I like it. Definitely a contender. I also looked very closely at Alpha Five or Alpha Anywhere (2 demos with them as well). It is extremely flexible and very powerful. The company is solid and very supportive. I need clarification regarding the server extensions playing nice on IIS running .net. The price is very reasonable too.

So for me, it's down to CodeOnTime or Alpha Anywhere.

Keep you posted.

Maybe if I procrastinate long enough, ISD will magically re-appear [smile]

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Jerry
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