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RickReiter

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Reply with quote  #106 
Just another take on the ongoing viability of ASP.NET WebForms...
https://jaxenter.com/asp-net-web-forms-redux-125274.html

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Rick Reiter
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miles

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Reply with quote  #107 
And another....

http://weblogs.asp.net/psheriff/web-forms-is-not-dead


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Miles Gibson, MScIS
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #108 
Rick and Miles,

     IMHO both articles miss the real threat to asp.net web forms and mvc. I also think if anyone believes that asp.net mvc is the next best thing in web development might already be behind the curve. It's hard to defend one over the other since it's just software and it evolves. Either way if the available tools are fit for the task then use them.

     I'm just glad to see the MS stack moving forward.

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miles

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Reply with quote  #109 
Hi Phil,

That is a real concern for sure.  Do I invest a lot of time now in MVC, only to see it overshadowed by Angular/Node.js etc a little further down the road, or what do I do?  Will MVC have the same legs as ASPx?

Thoughts?


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Miles Gibson, MScIS
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #110 

Miles,

When we talk about different technologies we can separate them into implementations and patterns. For me asp.net MVC and asp.net web forms is an implementation. I’m sure you could argue that web forms is a pattern but we know for sure that Model View Controller (MVC) is considered a pattern.

If someone were to ask me if they should learn MVC the pattern I would say it’s good to know because it’s so widely used in many different development environments. As software developers we should know a lot of different patterns.

When I think about implementation I do consider and use asp.net mvc but only as part of a larger solution. There are many more moving parts to consider when developing a web application. Below is a simple layout of what a web application might look like.

  1. ORM
    1. Entity Framework
    2. Linq to Entity Framework
  2. Business Objects
    1. POCO (plan old clr objects)
    2. Data annotations
  3. Server Side - Asp.net
    1. Identity
    2. Validation/verification
    3. MVC
    4. Web API
    5. Etc…
  4. Client – (Chrome,IE,Safari,Firefox)
    1. Javascript Libraries/Domain specific
    2. UX/UI
    3. Etc…

In a project each item 1-4 could be a separate project with a dependence reference where necessary.

Since ISD closed it’s doors we’ve seen a lot of talk about MVC and I think it’s important to understand that asp.net mvc is only a component. The real question is what does my stack look like when doing web developing where asp.net mvc is a part of it? Like web forms IS handled a lot of the moving parts for the user. Learning asp.net mvc is good but you’ll quickly learn that there are many more moving components that the developer needs to implement and understand.


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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #111 
Miles,

Some thoughts on asp.net mvc. The MVC question is complicated a little more by the fact that the current asp.net mvc implementation is not a plug-n-play upgrade to asp.net core. I would suggest to anyone that’s looking to go down the asp.net mvc path and there is no immediate rush, to take a look at asp.net core 1 and its development progress. MS changed the naming convention from asp.net 5 to asp.net core 1 which makes more sense since it’s a complete rewrite. This is not to be confused with .net core. Asp.net 4.6 will run on top of .net 4.6 and asp.net core 1.0 can run on both .net 4.6 and .net core 1. The point being if there is no immediate need to move to the current asp.net mvc release then learning asp.net core 1 might save some migrating expense/headaches.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #112 
Miles,

Some thoughts on MS; The MS landscape has been stagnate for some time now however it’s good to see some movement especially for developers. If you followed any of build you get a pretty good idea of where the MS development stack is headed. It also appears to me that MS is setting themselves up to be the first tier provider putting more pressure on ISVs. Watching the keynotes at build was like watching an infomercial for MS.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #113 
Miles,

Some thoughts on nodejs; You have to include node.js because of the attention it’s been getting from outside and inside of MS. Node is succeeding where MS failed at having a client and service side platform where a single language is used. Nodejs might very well leapfrog mvc as the premier server side platform for MS. In my opinion MS is embracing it. As I play with the Windows 10 IOT stuff it's here also.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #114 
Miles,

Some thoughts on client side development; No matter which server side technology a web developer chooses today it’s imperative to understand why/how/when the client interacts with the sever. You could almost abstract away the client to the point where it doesn’t matter which server side technology is used. This requires the developer to understand how to use the different javascript libraries available to them. It used to be there was a considerable amount of development done on the sever but a lot has shifted to the client.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #115 
Miles,

Some thoughts on UX/UI; Picking a UI/UX is not as difficult as it used to be since this is usually determined by which client side control provider you pick. There are many so I don’t need to go over them. I know that there are some forum users that push a particular vendor but be wary as they require a heavy lift and might not be necessary for everyone/project. There are also many open source UX/UI libraries.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #116 
Miles,

Some thoughts on web forms going forward; There is nothing I’ve seen or read to support this but I’m going to say it anyway. MVC is getting added to the asp.net core 1 stream because it’s the favored platform right now. Because of the plugable nature of the core framework it might be possible that web form gets implemented if the demand is there. Just like MVC I would not expect to migrate a web form application then run it without some modification. As it stands now it doesn't seem to move forward but who knows.

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Phil Porter
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #117 

Miles,

          So that you can give asp.net mvc a test run without a huge investment and data access/business classes that feels familiar you could do the following. You’ll need VS for this. Create an ISD Web Application (compiled DLL) include a few tables from the database of your choosing. Don’t worry about generating any of the forms you won’t need them. Build the project from ISD.

          Create another project in VS using the template Web -> ASP.NET Web Application. When you’re prompted to select the type of project select MVC. Don’t worry about anything else just click the OK button.

          Now copy the DLL’s BaseClasses.dll, <ISDProjectName>.Business.DLL, <ISDProjectName>.Data.DLL, and MySql.Data.Dll from the ISD project bin folder to the VS project bin folder. In VS add the references by browsing for them. The last thing to do is copy some setting from the web.config in the ISD project to the VS project. Copy the connection string then copy the all of the elements between the AppSetting tags in the ISD project to the VS project. I’m sure you won’t need them all but I’m not concerned about that right now.

          In the VS project find the folder controllers and expand it. Open the file homecontroller. Add the import/using statements to the class;

using BaseClasses;

using BaseClasses.Utils;

using BaseClasses.Data;

using BaseClasses.Data.SqlProvider;

using BaseClasses.Web.UI.WebControls;

 

using <ISDProjectName>.Business;

using <ISDProjectName>.Data;

          Now in the action method Index create a reference to one of the tables you created in the ISD project and it should appear. If you had a table called sites you could get all records by using the following code; var sites = SiteTable.GetRecords(“1=1”). If you’re using VB you’ll need vb.net of couse. You get the idea.

          This is a drop dead simple way of getting into asp.net mvc using some of your existing IS knowledge. If you want to continue further I’ll show you how easy it is to use the data in a view.


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JimiJ

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Reply with quote  #118 
Hi Phil! That sounds quite interesting I might give it a try.  Thanks [smile]
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miles

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Reply with quote  #119 
Hi Phil,

That is awesome! I can't wait to try it!  I will definitely let you know how it goes, and thank you so much for this contribution!

Cheers,

Miles

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Miles Gibson, MScIS
Iron Speed MVP
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Milestone Software Inc.

http://www.ironspeedmvp.com\localizer 
Email: miles@milestone.ca
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porphi

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Reply with quote  #120 

Miles and Jimi,

                You are certainly welcome!

                There are many other configurations that you could use to migrate/use an IS Web Application business/data access layers with an asp.net mvc application.

                As mentioned above it is easy enough to copy the needed business/data access classes over to a new project and reference them.  This would mean coping them every time a change was made in the IS piece.

One way that might make the workflow a little easier is to open the IS web application project then add your own mvc project to the IS generated project. Then add the references to the other projects <ISDWebAppName>.Business, and <ISDWebAppName>.Data. Then add the references to the baseclasses.dll and mysql.dll by browsing to the <ISDWebAppName>.Bin folder and selecting them. All of the business/data objects should now be accessible in the asp.net mvc project.

Hope this makes sense. 

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Thank you,
Phil Porter
PPG&A, INC.
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http://www.ppgainc.com
https://rapidsprout.com
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